INTERVIEW WITH ANNETTE KULENKAMPFF

Art journalists Nicole Büsing & Heiko Klaas in an interview with Annette Kulenkampff, publisher of Hatje Cantz Verlag. The conversation took place on June 8, 2012, during the preview days of dOCUMENTA (13) in a hotel in Kassel.

Ms. Kulenkampff, you grew up in Hanover, not too far from the Documenta city of Kassel. What were your first Documenta experiences? Which is the first exhibition you can remember?

The one from 1972. That's essentially the first Documenta I can consciously remember. I also visited the Documenta exhibitions before that, but I was very small then. I just don't remember them that well. From then on, I went to every Documenta, not only with my parents but also later. I was always enthusiastic in some way – except for the last Documenta. That one fascinated me the least. But up until then, every one of them, especially with all the breaks.

By that, you certainly mean the very different curatorial approaches...

There was a very decisive break: Jan Hoet was the last narrative, poetic Documenta maker. That was a tendency that I find again in the current Documenta. Catherine David with documenta X brought about a turning point that was decisive for the way contemporary exhibitions have been made since. I found that to be a really great and important Documenta. How important was only really recognized in retrospect. Okwui Enwezor's exhibition was then a bit in between. But I also liked that very much. Now there is again this narrative, this poetic and sensual aspect. That was missing a bit recently. This time the experience is again very sensual. You are involved head to toe.

You've been out and about at dOCUMENTA (13) for two days now. What are your first impressions?

I am very impressed by dOCUMENTA (13). I think, as a general impression, it can be stated that there is a very clear common thread. The wholeness of the world, so to speak. Perhaps it sometimes seems a little naive, but in any case, it is clear that everything that takes place in the world is really taken seriously: from plants, landscapes, and animals to humans and their objects. This is, of course, a very ambitious claim, but you can see that it's all about everything here, so to speak. And that, I believe, is fundamentally also the common thread of this exhibition.

Is there a very special personal highlight?

I think the Huguenot House is absolutely brilliant. Theaster Gates is an artist from Chicago. He rented a house with unemployed people and people who have no training. It's called Huguenot House. He furnished it completely with incredible furniture. He made pictures from waste materials. The participants live in the house – and they make music there. A kind of poetry music, jazz poetry. Absolutely wonderful. And the house is full of these things, of these pieces of furniture and self-made objects. And partly, the wallpaper and what was simply still there or reappeared also play a role. So, I find that, for example, very successful.

Are you planning any further Documenta visits? Will you come regularly now during the 100 days?

I don't know if it'll be regular. But I definitely want to come back once or twice. So much is on offer. In addition to the art, there is also a very diverse and comprehensive accompanying program. You really envy the people who live in Kassel.

Hatje Cantz and Documenta are almost inextricably linked. How long has that been the case?

For the publishing house, starting with Cantz, this is the fourth Documenta we've supported. Before, the Documenta always looked for a printing house near Kassel. I believe, however, that the second or first catalog was from Prestel. But then no more publishers were involved. It really started with Jan Hoet's DOCUMENTA IX. That was 20 years ago. Next, we did the Documenta with Catherine David, number 10, and after that, the 11 with Okwui Enwezor. The 12 was then with Taschen Verlag, and now the Documenta is working with us again.

How did this renewed collaboration come about?

When I learned that Carolyn Christov-Bakargiev would be taking over the artistic direction, I simply contacted the Documenta managing director, Bernd Leifeld, whom I already knew. I told him it would be nice if we could talk. And then we quickly got to talking.

What is necessary for a collaboration with Documenta?

It requires a team specifically set up for this type of production. Otherwise, it won't work. You just can't manage it. And so, we said, okay, we'll do everything. From the beginning, starting with the notebooks. The dimensions kept getting bigger and bigger. We couldn't have known that at first. We had already agreed on everything after Carolyn Christov-Bakargiev's Turin invitation. That was in the fall of 2010.

And after that? Were there complicated coordination processes?

Not that many. We used the designers Carolyn Cristov-Bakargiev suggested, Leftloft, who did a superb job. They're based in Milan and New York. We put together the editorial team. Carolyn Christov-Bakargiev brought Bettina Funcke, who lives in New York, into the team. It's always extremely important that the innermost circle of editorial staff consists of people who speak the same language. The collaboration with her was very fruitful. She came from Karlsruhe, then was at the DIA Art Foundation and also did the publications there. And Katrin Sauerländer, whom I then suggested, came from the Kunst-Werke in Berlin. I've known her forever, and I thought it all fit well together. And that's how it was. Together with our production department at the publishing house, it was an optimal setup.

Did you then have many personal meetings with Carolyn Christov-Bakargiev?

We had maybe five meetings where we coordinated everything broadly. Then there were some Skype conferences. A lot of things developed as we went along. You don't really meet that often anymore because the participants are very scattered. Carolyn Christov-Bakargiev was always on the go. So communication was very limited to email and phone.

What were the special aspects of the exchange with Carolyn Christov-Bakargiev?

The special aspects were certainly that, just like Catherine David and Okwui Enwezor, the publications were extremely important to her. This is a very significant part of her philosophy. Since she loves books very much, she wanted to see and control everything, which is a bit difficult when someone is constantly traveling and under great time pressure. She was very involved in that respect. But always in a positive sense. Sometimes, but this is often the case, she also had ideas that were difficult to realize.

Can you give examples?

First, the Book of Books was supposed to have 1400 pages. We then had to tell her that it was simply not technically feasible. We are now at 7.5 cm thick. However, 8 cm is the absolute maximum, otherwise, it won't go through the production line at the bindery. We specifically used very thin paper and exhausted all possible tricks, but one always has to balance the technical, pragmatic side with the desires and dreams on the other side. And in the end, if you're lucky, something good comes out of it.

You just mentioned the special paper quality. Could you elaborate on that a bit more...

What's very important: It's Munken paper, so-called book printing paper, meaning an open, uncoated quality. This is actually unsuitable for illustrations. But I still think it was the right decision. Because it gives the publications, the notebooks, the accompanying book, the Book of Books, and the logbook great homogeneity. You simply notice: This series belongs together. With Munken paper, you don't have the expectation that every color has to be perfect. If you use a very smooth coated art paper, you think the illustrations must be brilliant and color-accurate. The illustrations on Munken paper don't all look quite as brilliant, but it creates a beautiful, homogeneous overall impression, which works well.

What were other special features in the technical approach and the design of the books?

There's a lot of image material from the artists in the accompanying book, and it's of quite varied quality. It could be a drawing, a photo, or just a copy. The paper homogenizes these different criteria of the originals. And as a result, the accompanying volume as a whole looks very coherent. Nothing really stands out or is out of place. We also, and this was a certain risk, used 80-g paper for the accompanying book, which is completely unusual; 135- or 150-g paper would be typical. Otherwise, you couldn't carry the accompanying book around with you. So it's very practical because it's thick but not heavy. Visitors can easily take it with them on the exhibition tour, and that's what it's intended for. You can't produce kilogram-heavy works for that.

Once again about the cover material...

The cover material is f-color from the company Schabert. It is actually only available in 100 g, because it is a covering material. We had to have it specially produced in 350 g for the accompanying volume. Now it is the same paper as the covers of the notebooks and the covering of the other two catalogues. This was about a conceptual principle. The notebooks use the entire palette of a color family of the same quality. The conception and the coloring of the notebooks have something to do with the content. That is a very complex story. The green tones of the three main publications are also made from the same material and the same color family.

However, for the accompanying book, you chose a different, more flexible option. What were the reasons for that?

We wanted a paperback and not a hardcover like the other volumes. The processing should be flexible for quick browsing. That's why we then looked for material from various manufacturers that would have matched that of the other publications, but we didn't find anything suitable. Finally, we had the cover board specially produced in the corresponding green in 350 g, which is of course expensive and elaborate. But it was worth it.

Finally, we would like to discuss the logbook, the last outstanding publication of dOCUMENTA (13). What can the reader expect, and when can the logbook be expected to appear?

It will, of course, be somewhat delayed, because a significant part will be the installation photos from the Documenta itself. 80 percent of the works of this Documenta were created in situ, i.e., directly in Kassel. Our ambition, of course, is to depict a large part of this in the logbook. That's why we have prepared the book as much as possible. It describes Carolyn Christov-Bakargiev's path to her Documenta, with original documents and a lot of personal material. This way, you understand how she corresponded with artists and agents and developed her ideas. This collection is supplemented by images of the installations and artworks at dOCUMENTA (13) with photographs taken immediately after the opening, which then only need to be reproduced and incorporated into the book layout. Then we print, and the logbook will be released at the end of July.

Ms. Kulenkampff, thank you for the interview.

15.07.2012